Monday, 22 April 2019

Who actually approves of this grotesque Tory barbarism?


Steven Smith spent the last months of his life fighting an utterly perverse decision to declare him 'fit for work' and strip him of his disability benefits despite evidence from his doctors that he could barely walk 20 metres without collapsing.

In February 2019 he was hospitalised weighing just 6 stone, but he had to get a pass out of hospital to attend an appeal against the perverse DWP decision to deny his disability benefits, despite the mountains of medical evidence that he was severely ill like his diagnoses of incurable Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease, and osteoarthritis.

Thankfully the judge saw what should have been glaringly obvious to the Tory-administered DWP and the corporate outsourcing minions who operate their disability denial programmes, that 64 year old Steven could barely walk down the street, let alone hold down a full-time job.

Just a couple of months after winning his appeal against this utterly barbaric Tory system Steven died.

This is a shocking individual tragedy that should make even the most hard-hearted of Tories question what their beloved party did to this poor man, but this isn't just an example of an unfortunate individual falling through the cracks, it's an example of the Tory disability denial system working exactly as designed.

Literally thousands of sick and disabled people have died within weeks of having been declared fit-for-work in the Tory disability denial system.

Just imagine the suffering of being so ill you're on death's door, and being told by the Tory DWP that you're not really ill, but actually an idle scrounger who needs to go and get a job. Imagine how you would feel seeing a member of your family being psychologically tortured like this in the final weeks of their lives.

Then there's all the money the Tory government have spent fighting against appeals from people like Steven Smith. In 2017-18 they blasted an extraordinary £120 million opposing appeals against their barbaric disability denial system, with over 40,000 people proving that they were entitled to the benefits they'd been denied.

That's £120 million in public funds that could have been spent on all manner of useful things, like rehiring some of the 20,000+ police jobs the Tories have scrapped since 2010, more nurses, more firefighters, Sure Start centres, or affordable housing.

And then there's the fact that these Tory disability denial programmes actually cost far more to administer than they will ever save in reduced benefits payments.

The Tories have known for years that it actually costs more to treat disabled people in this horrific manner than it will ever save, but when it comes to systematically abusing sick and disabled people, suddenly the Tories' absurd "there isn't enough money" austerity narrative goes in the bin, and there's plenty of public cash to subsidise their malicious abuse of sick and disabled people.

This despicable Tory mistreatment of sick and disabled people at the public expense is so barbaric that it's been repeatedly condemned by the United Nations as a "grave and systematic violation of the rights of persons with disabilities".

Labour have pledged to put a stop to this absolute barbarism, and several of the other opposition parties (Greens, Plaid Cymru, and the SNP) have been absolutely vehement in their opposition to this systematic Tory abuse of disabled people too.

However the big problem is that there are literally millions of selfish "I'm alright Jack" wankers out there who consider the plight of Steven Smith (and tens of thousands more like him) to be "a price worth paying" in return for whatever (probably imaginary) benefit they think they're getting from voting to keep the Tory party in power.

If you're one of the 13.6 million people to have voted Tory in 2017 then you should have a long hard think about the appalling suffering that you've helped to inflict on literally thousands of people like Steven Smith.

And if you're still planning on voting Tory, even after reading this, and even after learning that a Labour government would put a stop to it, I honestly don't think I'm being too harsh to point out that you're an absolute fucking monster of a person.


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85 comments:

Anonymous said...

Lets see, Ukip actually have a policy in their manifesto to re-nationalize the welfare sector and do away with Atos. Labour have a similar policy, however they want to:
a) stay in the E.U, which is pro-austerity, dictates the European economic policy on Austerity and will see further cuts to individuals on disability benefits like this and
b) They're absolutely fine with industrialised child sex trafficking.


Labours: So pro-pedophile and Austerity (by default of wanting to remain in the E.U.)
Ukip: Clearly anti austerity given their policies and wanting to leave the E.U and obviously anti pedophile (Batten's gone on record as pointing out the various MP's and Lords who're under investigation or had investigations dropped around child sex abuse.

Obviously if you've any criticisms of UKIP I'm all ears, it's just: You do have to deal with the strong evidence of Labour, AGAIN: being Pro-pedophile and Pro-Austerity.


What a no brainer.

Ulysse said...

TEGAN DELETE THIS FFS

Unknown said...

Absolutely inhumane, disgraceful treatment of people in dire needs by people who couldn't care less.
I absolutely despise this Tory government.

Anonymous said...

Former Bury UKIP chairman jailed for grooming children and having 200,000 child porn images

Wonder why Tommy Robinson was not protesting about this wonderful Kipper Specimen ?

A FORMER chairman of Bury's UK Independence Party has been jailed for grooming children and possessing nearly 200,000 indecent images of children.

Peter Entwistle spoke to children on MSN Messenger and other social network sites in a sexualised manner, asking them to commit sexual acts for his own satisfaction, Bolton Crown Court heard today.

The 52-year-old named himself the 'Naughty Doctor', using an explicit picture of two women as his profile picture, and spoke to a 13-year-old girl and a 12-year-old boy, who he believed was a girl.

In addition, when police officers raided his house in January 25 last year, they found thousands of indecent images of children stored on a number of computers, USB sticks and some which had been printed out.

Entwistle was sentenced to four years and eight months in prison after pleading guilty to 21 counts at an earlier hearing, including possessing and distributing indecent images of children as well as inciting and the attempted inciting of children to commit sexual acts.

He will be placed on the sexual offenders register for life, and would be subject to a sexual offences prevention order.

The court was told that Entwistle, of Broad Oak Lane, Bury, had one previous conviction of indecently exposing himself to a woman in the 1980s, but had otherwise had a clean record.

Iain Simkin, defending Entwistle, read out a letter to the court from Alistair Burt, who was the MP for Bury North from 1983 to 1997, which referenced his good character .

Judge Elliot Knopf added: "You are now 52-years-old, and you have, until these matters, led an exemplary life, which is attributed to by various letters I have received from people ranging from family, colleagues, the rector of churches and an MP.”

The court was also told that Entwistle was seeking treatment from a psychiatrist for depression.

He was a founder member of Bury UKIP in March 2011, and resigned as party chairman in January 2013.

Unknown said...

Get rid of the Tories,and the country will heal itself..food banks in 2019 is a sin, are they Christians, I see them leaving churches on TV, where are the religious order, speak out you gutless rats...

Anonymous said...

The people who vote to carry on this callous and wicked shite should be ashamed of themselves!

Anonymous said...

"Former Bury UKIP chairman jailed for grooming children and having 200,000 child porn images

Wonder why Tommy Robinson was not protesting about this wonderful Kipper Specimen ?"

Because he was found guilty and jailed you absolute moron. I fucking love it, you blithely ignore the evidence of thousands of minors that were allowed to be raped by Labour councilors who knowingly let it happen and have been let completely off the hook and think that a single ex-Ukip representative being found guilty of pedophilia and sent to jail is comparable.

You've literally proven my point. Imbecile.

Anonymous said...

Labour are pro-institutionalised pedophilia, that is: They are clearly fine with members of the public committing acts of rape on minors for prolonged periods and have knowingly covered this up. Rochdale, Telford, Bradford, etc.
They have been let completely off this hook for this. Some of them still serve as councillors.

Ukip are clearly anti-pedophile. Any members that have been found guilty of this (which number below the teens) have been jailed after going through the legal court proceedings. Labour Mp's, Conservative Mp's, Labour and conservative representatives in the House of lords under investigation for child abuse: HAVE THE CASE'S DROPPED.

The E.U is pro-austerity and you all want to stay in it.
Ukip want to leave the E.U, that means no more austerity.

You are all: pro austerity and pro-institutionalised child abuse.

Wankers.

Pal said...

"However the big problem is that there are literally millions of selfish "I'm alright Jack" wankers out there who consider the plight of Steven Smith (and tens of thousands more like him) to be "a price worth paying" in return for whatever (probably imaginary) benefit they think they're getting from voting to keep the Tory party in power."

Even worse Thomas millions of Tory twats think people like poor Steven are nothing more than worthless scroungers, playing the system and therefore deserve everything they get. It's even worse for the mentally ill, since without any physical sign of illness the immediate assumption is that it's just laziness or weakness, therefore stripping them of benefits is automatically the best thing for them.

The Tories need to be held to account for every single one of these deaths, never should this be allowed to be buried and forgotten about.

Anonymous said...

And Labour need to be held to account for every single councillor who allowed the mass rape of children over a 16 year period... right?

Hayley said...

Not sure if you realise this but shouting baseless acusations of peadophillia is not a convincing argument. It just makes you look like a nut-job like the Pizza-gate idiots in America :)

Anonymous said...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-7FNw5U7TI0

That's the channel five report. Not sure if you realise but replying to a topic without the most basic of preliminary web searches makes you look like one of those momentum tits who think socialism the way forward ;)

Anonymous said...

Sooo, you gonna vote Labour despite this massive, unaccountable scandal that ruined the lives of thousands of young women...?

Anonymous said...

This is off topic but I would like to know AAV's opinion.

AAV could you please do an article regarding Carl Benjamin (YouTuber - Sargon of Akkad) and Mark Meechan (YouTuber - Count Dankula) as they have both been in the news recently for joining UKIP and standing as MEP's.

Hayley said...

So the failings of one town council, shows that the entire labour party explicity endorses peadophillia?

What happened in Rotherham was a tragedy, but you're acting like it's part of some Labour party conspiracy rather than a breakdown in one town's child protective services.

Anonymous said...

It wasn't a breakdown, the councilors knew it was going on and allowed it to continue, actually stopping town hall meetings about it. They completely enabled child rape on an institutionalised level. It's not a conspiracy theory, it literally happened and because they're members of a major party: they have gotten away with it.

As for "one" example: Telford, Rotherham, Sunderland and far more examples exist all over the UK.

That's who you're voting for.

Anonymous said...

@Hayley:
https://metro.co.uk/2017/08/23/mp-shares-tweet-saying-abuse-victims-should-shut-their-mouths-for-good-of-diversity-6872181/

Honest to God, how can you seriously support this party? You want socialism, fine, you want equality, fine: But you appear to want these things at the cost of anything. Can you honestly say you're happy with a Labour Government with Mp's of this calibre allowed in the ranks?

Hayley said...

You're taking the actions of one town council, (links to anything else remotely on this scale if you disagree) and one stupid Mp and generalising that to a party with 500,000 active members, 246 mps and over 6000 council members nation wide.

The labour party is not actively pushing for pedophillia and you know it.

Anonymous said...

So Labour councilors enable child rape by actively stopping investigations into it, when an investigation finally takes place sixteen years later... They're let completely off the hook despite the evidence that they enabled child rape... And you think the labour party isn't responsible... whatever helps you sleep at night Hayley.

Also: Telford, Rotherham, Sunderland, etc, etc... Y'know, those other northern towns here the same thing happened you've missed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thHGamu1KuI Telford...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal Rotherham…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Champion Here's the wiki article on champion who faced opposition from other Labour MP's for going public regarding the scandal...

Lol, is your sole response to all of this to merely state: provide me with citation when a google search can net you all you need in two minutes?

If those councilors were not convicted or even ejected from the party for covering up a scandal... What does that make labour?

You are aware this is a wide ranging scandal that's hit multiple northern towns don't you?

Hayley said...

Yeah it's generally part of the burden of proof when you make a claim to support it with evidence. You don't just say. Here's a thing that happend, now go google it...

Nothing you've linked to in any way demonstrates that Labour party members were responsible for what occured in Rotherham, or telford or that the wider party had any idea about any of this while it was occuring. Not even sure what you're refering to in sunderland as you've not linked it and google is bringing up nothing.

There's no indication of any conspiracy or a coverup here, just some councillors failing to take due diligence and refusing to listen to abuse victims. A sad state of affairs, but far from convincing evidence that the Labour party is in any way engaging or supporting sex abuse on a national scale

Unknown said...

Well said Hayley..If there is evidence of the above claims, take it to the police or press.spewing out allegations on a forum that's discussing DWP abuse is skirting this issue..

Anonymous said...

In the channel four interview I posted it explicitly states the councilors covered it up and, sixteen years later, received no punishment. That's aiding and abetting.

Socialists man, you're so cold.

Anonymous said...

So labour councillors who enabled sixteen years of child rape... which legally is aiding and abetting... is merely a failure of local social services.. despite the explicit first hand account of abuse victims. Ok.

At what age did you realise you hated the working class?

Anonymous said...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11391314/Rotherham-child-sex-abuse-scandal-council-not-fit-for-purpose.html

Heres your evidence. The article explicitly states the Labour councillors covered up child abuse and still deny there was an issue. They were never brought to justice, Labour did nothing once the report was out...

I mean youd at least think thered be some condemnation from the shadow bench wouldn't you. But I guess you guys dont like the p.r so the enabling of mass rape is, being let down by social services. That's a hell of a spin there.

Hayley said...

ok so what should the labour party have done? Suspended the membership of every labour party councilor who served over a 16 year period?

I've gone to the original report, it talks about a culture of sexism, of denial and underfunding and of concerns of being percived as racist. It talks about attempts that were made to address the problem, but of an underestimation of the size and scale of the issue.

The report does not single out any particular council member for blame, nor have any of the subsequent investigations that i am aware of. If there were any evidence of specific coverups then criminal proceedings would have been started. If the prosecution service are unable to put together a case then why are you expecting the Labour party to take action against any specific individuals?

Honestly what do you want? A long term fix for a systemic issue or a scape goat to hang, draw and quarter?

No one in the labour party is defending what happend. No one is downplaying the size of the tragedy. It is not labour party policy to encourage, condone or support sexual abuse. You're using a horific incident to score cheap political points because you can't fault Labour on its actual policies.

Anonymous said...

Lets have a look at that telegraph article then:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11391314/Rotherham-child-sex-abuse-scandal-council-not-fit-for-purpose.html

"ok so what should the labour party have done? Suspended the membership of every labour party councilor who served over a 16 year period?" somewhat asinine but obviously: They should have at least suspended the council members involved as they were aiding and abetting pedophiles.

"The report does not single out any particular council member for blame, nor have any of the subsequent investigations that i am aware of."
From the article:
"A damning report, written by former Victims’ Commissioner, Louise Casey, has laid bare the true extent of the council’s failings and accused those in charge of deliberately trying to cover up scandal and silence whistle-blowers."

In summary, it wasn't an individual Labour councilor: IT WAS ALL OF THEM. Oh dear.

"If there were any evidence of specific coverups then criminal proceedings would have been started. If the prosecution service are unable to put together a case then why are you expecting the Labour party to take action against any specific individuals?"
From the same article:
"The National Crime Agency (NCA) also announced it was extending its investigation into child sexual exploitation in the town to cover a number of “potentially criminal matters” that had been uncovered by the report."

They are starting criminal proceedings: FINALLY.









Anonymous said...

Also from the article:
"The NCA would not be drawn on what areas it will be investigating, but it is understood allegations of attempted cover ups at the council, will be explored further by investigators."
The NSA is investigating based on allegations of coverups... By the councilors. The Labour councilors.

"Despite the appalling revelations and victim testimonies contained in the Jay report, Ms Casey said she had been greeted by a council that was still in complete denial about the extent of the problem."
The council are still in complete denial there's an issue. Like you basically.

"“By failing to take action against the Pakistani heritage male perpetrators of CSE in the borough, the Council has inadvertently fuelled the far right and allowed racial tensions to grow, it has done a great disservice to the Pakistani heritage community and the good people of Rotherham as a result.
“This has allowed perpetrators to remain at large, has let victims down, and perversely, has allowed the far right to try and exploit the situation. These may have been unintended consequences but the impact remains the same and reaches into the present day.”

Did you even read the article when I posted it? It explicitly states in quotes from those individuals investigating the Labour councilors that they allowed child rape to go on for decades.

"The report said that the council went to “considerable lengths” to cover up information adding: “It has created an unhealthy climate where people fear to speak out”."

literally states the labour council failed those women. Is this enough to satisfy you that in this specific case it was the labour councilors fault and labour itself has done nothing to prosecute or make them atone?

Anonymous said...

"No one in the labour party is defending what happend. No one is downplaying the size of the tragedy. It is not labour party policy to encourage, condone or support sexual abuse."

Well that's not actually true is it Hayley. Obviously an actual policy in a labour manifesto giving the go ahead for child rape doesn't exist... But you do have a fantastically unhealthy culture of specific Mp's demanding other Mp's downplay these multiple cases of mass child rape.


You're using a horific incident to score cheap political points because you can't fault Labour on its actual policies."
We-ell, not incident more: INCIDENTS. Seeing as Telford had exactly the same issue and that was majority labour run. I'm perfectly happy to go into the details of that one seeing as you don't actually seem capable of reading the most basic of citation.

As for Labours policies, my God women they're awful. There's multiple one's I can think of but honestly the most hypocritical, absurd and frankly astoundingly terrifying in the sense of our children's future is that your party is actually pro austerity.

The European Union created and pushed the austerity policy in 2009 as a response to 2008 financial crisis. I'm assuming you know the horrifying effects this had had on people world wide. Here's the European institutes official measures which they insisted be carried out by European members (and they were, the irony being you genuinely believe it's the tories who pushed it and whilst they probably thought it was a great idea: It was the E.U's original one!)
https://www.europeaninstitute.org/index.php/112-european-affairs/special-g-20-issue-on-financial-reform/1180-austerity-measures-in-the-eu

So. Labour claims to be anti austerity. The E.U is pro-austerity (it still pushes it. Fuck me you lot are dense) and your party is pushing for a second referendum.

Now. You now know that the E.U is pro austerity. Do you still want to remain in it?

Lol. Your move sweetheart

Anonymous said...

Man, I bet you thought: we can reform the E.U! I bet you did didn't you?

How?

The council and the institute are both run by unelected officials and they make the policy. The best thing you can do is vote in people who will vote against E.U policy in the E.U parliament as it's basically pro austerity. Ironically this has actually made Ukip anti austerity by default as they always vote against these policies (I'm voting for them, the amount of child rape apologists I've come across who still think communism is a good thing has turned me positively libertarian).

Gulliver said...

@ Hayley - "Honestly what do you want? A long term fix for a systemic issue or a scape goat to hang, draw and quarter?"

It's clear that what 'anonymous' wants is for everyone to "look over there" instead of at the devastating consequences of the current administration’s policy actions which have resulted in unnecessary stress and suffering as detailed in the blog post he is ostensibly commenting on, the content of which 'anonymous' is very keen to avoid discussing.

The thing about Rotherham is that people have actually been prosecuted and punished as a result of criminal investigations which then led to a public enquiry which you mention. Had any councillor, especially a LABOUR councillor been in the frame, it's pretty obvious what would happen to them given the state of the legacy media in this country.

Compare and contrast with the current crisis detailed above, not to mention the Windrush scandal where, far from being sanctioned, the perpetrators continue to be in charge of perpetuating the same policies of which Steven Smith is just the latest in an increasingly long list of casualties.

Hayley said...

That article was from 2015! The criminal investigation started in 2014 and has turned up nothing to support the prosecution of any council member. You're basing your argument on one right wing newspaper article and a couple of youtube videos. I've looked at the actual report. I've looked at Lousie casey's letters and the subsequent intervention reports. They can all be found online

https://www.rotherham.gov.uk/downloads/file/1407/independent_inquiry_cse_in_rotherham
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/inspection-into-the-governance-of-rotherham-council

The original report makes it clear that many councillors were being kept in the dark, and even those aware of the issue were unaware of the scale of it. Your insinuations of a grand Labour party conspiricy hold no water.

More baseless assertions. Labour is not pro austerity. Corbyn is arguably anti-EU, certainly not a eurocrat and the labour party is not campaigning for a second brexit referendum

The page you link to stats that "EU member states may not have a budget deficit that exceeds three percent of their Gross Domestic Product (GDP)" Cuts to the NHS, Schools, Police force were not mandated by the EU. these were tory policies. Labour are not in favour of austerity. Ending austerity has been their stated policy for a long time now but thier 2018 shadow budget made that even clearer. Spending cuts to public services are not the only way to balance a budget

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45976006

You keep moaning at me to read your citations when it's becoming abundantly clear you're not actually reading them properly yourself...

Unknown said...

Your right Hayley..Corbyn is from the Bennite wing of the party, Tony Benn would have made a great prime minister, they were cold on joining the banksters in Europe and were right,Greece being a casing point, Jeremy Corbyn is taking a sensible line and I think the polls are reflecting it, another referendum would be devicive, and I think the ones advocating another poll know it would damage labour, there's alot wolves around in sheep's clothing, it's time to disinfect the party and step closer to a proper labour party..

Anonymous said...

Yawn. The "right wing article" utilised direct quotes from the lady performing the investigation who stated directly labour councillors ignored and covered up abuse.

The e.u implemented the austerity plan, it's common knowledge, indeed I provided citation from the European Institute. Labour are anti austerity in their manifesto, the e.u is pro austerity, if labour are in power they must defer to e.u rule. Ignoring eont make it go away, lol.

Hayley said...

umm. first off the telegraph is a well known right wing paper. It's not beyond it's editorial team to cherry pick quotations and frame them to make a point. The real question is why are referring back to a secondary source when I linked you the actual documents in question?

Secondly the link you presented does not show that Tory cuts were mandated by the EU. quite the oposite. They set a target for deficit reduction and then left the implimentation to the individual national governments. lets compare some of these shall we?

France opted for a raise in retirement age an increase in pension contributions and tax raises for wealthy individuals and corporations:

France- The government’s budget is aimed at lowering the deficit to six percent of GDP in 2011, three percent in 2013 and to two percent in 2014. Parliament voted to raise the retirement age to 62 (from 60); the pay-as-you-go pension system is being raised by half a year to 41.5 years of required work for full pension; a three-year freeze on public spending is under consideration; pension contributions from employees’ pay will rise to 10.55 percent from 7.85 percent; income taxes for the highest income group will rise by one percent and an one-off corporate tax break will be eliminated. Under these plans, a total of €45 billion a year will be cut from government spending over the next three years.

Italy opted for a delay in retirement age, public services wages freeze and cross departmental buget cuts of 10%

Italy- Italy’s budget aims to bring down the deficit from 5.3 percent of GDP to 2.7 percent by 2012. Spending cuts include a delay in retirement age of up to six months; a state salary freeze and pay cuts for high public sector earners. Funding to city and regional authorities is expected to be cut by more than €13 billion. All government ministries will be required to make a 10 percent spending cut in 2011.

In the UK the tories opted for an average of 19% cuts to all departments, 24% cut to department of culture, retirement age increase, massive public sector job cuts, university cuts, benefit cuts, cuts to defence and police spending and a regressive vat increase. Bear in mind the EU set a deficit target of 3% the tory cuts aimed to drop the deficit to 1%

United Kingdom-The British government unveiled the country’s steepest public spending cuts in more than 60 years: €83 billion in spending cuts by 2015, bringing the 11 percent of GDP budget deficit down to one percent over the next five years. The new budget includes reducing costs in government departments by an average of 19 percent; a 24 percent cut to the Department of Culture (includes the BBC); raising the retirement age from 65 to 66 by 2020; eliminating 490,000 public sector jobs over the next four years, university cuts; lowering long-term unemployment benefits from 95% to 70% and eliminating benefits to those who do not seek jobs; eliminating child benefits to those earning more than €70,000 as well as other cuts to the welfare system. Defense spending will decrease by eight percent and police spending will decrease by four percent. The VAT tax will rise from 17.5 to 20 percent in January.

See how the tory cuts were much harsher than France and Italy's, were aimed mostly at the poorest members of society and went far further than the EU's 3% target? See how taxes were raised on the poor rather than the rich?

All of this information is taken directly from the source you linked to. So I have to ask again. do you actually read the web pages you keep linking to?

one more question for you. What do you think the UK should have done? Kept the buget deficit at 11.4%? Or do you actually agree that the EU's goal to reduce government overspend in the face of the international banking crisis might have been a good idea?

Anonymous said...

The E.U are pro-austerity. You've actually stated, I'm assuming ignorantly, that the E.U set austerity measures, however the Tories went more extreme with them. That still means the E.U is pro-austerity. I'm not quiet sure what your argument for remaining in the E.U is if they're... Austerity lite? Obviously there was nothing lite about Greece:


http://www.cadtm.org/Debt-and-austerity-measures
The austerity measures they implemented on Greece were actual human right's violations. Here's a quote from the article:
"Since May 2010, Greece has been in structural adjustment. [1] To obtain loans from the International Monetary Fund (IMF), 14 member States of the eurozone “represented” by the European Commission, and the European Financial Stability Facility (now the European Stability Mechanism), Greece must implement the numerous austerity measures and mass privatisations listed in the memoranda concluded with its creditors in the “Troika” - now renamed “the Institutions” - comprising the European Central Bank, the IMF and the European Commission."

The Austerity measures were created and funded (with a loan) by the IMF and the E.U and agreed upon by Greece. Just so we've got this clear: It is down to the individual countries to implement the austerity measures. I'm stating: THE E.U IS PRO-AUSTERITY.

you appear to want to belong to the E.U despite the fact that it's economic policy: Is austerity. what's your plan exactly, get Labour into power, remain in the E.U and defy their policies? Kind of defeats the point of being in the E.U doesn't it...

Anonymous said...

"one more question for you. What do you think the UK should have done? Kept the buget deficit at 11.4%? Or do you actually agree that the EU's goal to reduce government overspend in the face of the international banking crisis might have been a good idea?"

I would have (assuming I'm some sort of benevolent dictator in this scenario)
-Not bailed out the banks/corporations (which the E.U did with trillions of taxpayers money). it did absolute nothing to save the regular tax payer and rather then letting the banks fail naturally (which we would have recovered from given time) instead we're in a position where the whole thing is being repeated again: Thanks in part to the E.U.
-I would have left the E.U you on principle learning that they were using uk taxpayers money: To bail our corporation. You appear to be ok with that... very socialist (I'm not kidding, it's a common trend with centralised economies).
-Done basic freeing up of the UK economy and lowered taxes overall. So: Slowly lowering subsidies to the energy markets. This would allow green energy to take over by out competing nuclear/coal/oil, etc as it has in China.
-Lowered subsidies to privatized rail companies in increments over four years and re-privatized the rail tracks (they're currently nationalised, funnily enough one of the reasons we have to subsidise private rail companies is because the nationalized rails are so shoddy they cause those companies to loose money, LOL. The grim fucking irony there).
-Canceled all PFI contracts. Corbyn and McDonnell are absolute pussies, they want to buy them out. If you're afraid of destroying competition for more PFI contracts by making such a tyrannical move as canceling them it'll do just that: stop people making PFI contracts. That's the point and unlike Labour: it won't cost billions.

Anonymous said...

Cont:
-I'd re-nationilse Atos. Privatised companies funded by the state obviously don't work.
-I'd cut all funding to hate crime units, cease completely into investigating hate speech on line and put all of this available funding into putting officers on the street.
-I'd imitate the sixties rota police had through major cities in which police walking the street could be contacted physically within twenty minutes.
-I'd cancel trident: We#'re part of Nato.
-I'd cancel all overseas aid: Most of it goes toward neo-colonialism projects that put money into corporations (you should check out the E.U's dominance of Ghana's chicken framing and how that's brought the entire industry and with it thousands of families: Into poverty). It doesn't benefit anyone overseas, benefits companies and often just goes toward funding warlords and genocide: Rawanda springs to mind. Christ, we funded them for nearly a decade.
uuuum…
-I'd lower corporation tax. it's the only good thing the tories have done and it's brought a massive increase in tax receipts.

There, I've saved a trillion in refusing to bail out banks alone and billions with a few simple signatures from my grand self.

The E.U are pro austerity: You cool with that?

Anonymous said...

@Gulliver: It's clear that you're just trying to get everyone to look away from the child abuse the labour councilors covered up for nearly two decades, because you're afraid it'll tarnish Labour's reputation.

Your sort of lower then scum rally aren't you?

Anonymous said...

file:///C:/Users/bestj/AppData/Local/Packages/Microsoft.MicrosoftEdge_8wekyb3d8bbwe/TempState/Downloads/Independent_inquiry_CSE_in_Rotherham%20(1).pdf

page one states that the collective failures of political and officer leadership is blatant.
Page three:
"By far the majority of perpetrators were described as 'Asian' by victims, yet throughout the entire period, councillors did not engage directly with the Pakistani-heritage community to discuss how best they could jointly address the issue. Some councillors seemed to think it was a one-off problem, which they hoped would go away. Several staff described their nervousness about identifying the ethnic origins of perpetrators for fear of being thought racist; others remembered clear direction from their managers not to do so. "

Christ this is grim. However, if you'd actually watched the original link I'd sent you, the channel four review, you'd be aware that regarding the Rotherham investigation, nearly thirty key officials refused to be interviewed for the enquiry including the ex council leader(labour), his successor (Labour...). It's at 02:26

I'm not sure about you but that comes across as a bit suss love? Oh, you're labour... It's probably just an accident.
Here's the link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7FNw5U7TI0&app=desktop

Just so we've got this straight though: No one on the council has been held accountable despite 1400 young women trafficked for sex over a sixteen year period. Same with Telford and you've had multiple Mp's calling for less attention to the entire debacle.

Hayley said...

You've got absoultely no idea what you're talking about. A trillion is 1000 Billion. How you think the Bank bailouts cost more than a years entire tax revenue i have no idea.

The uk's contribution to the EU bailouts was £5 Billion with aproximately another £4.5 billion coming from our share of contributions to the IMF

The cost of the uk bank bailout was £136.6 billion the UK's current yearly spend is 817.5 billion. After the purchased assets are sold of we're looking at a 27 billion pound loss to the british tax payer. to put this in perspective the 2019 deficit after a decade of tory cuts is still around £19.0 billion.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-budget-banks/british-taxpayers-face-27-billion-pound-loss-from-bank-bailout-idUKKBN13I1FJ

https://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/

The bank bailouts did not cause tory cuts. The EU did not demand tory cuts. the cuts were entirely idological. When people criticise tory austesrity, it's the disproportionate burden on the poor they object to. very few people object to reducing the deficit. Again the EU did not mandate tory cuts, they just set a target for deficit reduction. I don't see how that's a bad thing

Most of the stuff you're talking about in your hypothetical budget is peanuts anyway. UK spends about 14 billion pa on foreign aid that's less than a third of what we spend on defence and it's a lot of money but small price to pay for the good will it generates with these countries. Aid spending premotes international security, and increases the uk's presence on the world stage. I'd go into this further but i think geopolitics would go over your head

And how much exactly do you think is spent on hate crime legislation? Do you think allowing people to encite racial and religious vioilence would be good for the country? Would increased tensions be worth the tiny savings?

THen to go along with your miniscule savings you want to lower taxes further? This is not how you go about balancing the public purse.

Look if you had some sort of keynesian counter argument to deficit reduction maybe i'd listen, but your proposed solution is to promote a load of UKIP talking points and then pull a bunch of random numbers out of your arse. It's ludicrous!

Hayely said...

oh for gods sake watch your own videos!

1:48 " we could find no evidential basis to support that there was a planed or orchistrated coverup."

There have been waves of independant inquirys alongside police investigations. I think the people actually writing these reports know a great deal more about the situation than someone who gets all their information from youtube videos and telegraph articles.

Anonymous said...

Lol, my bad, got it mixed up with the U.S corporation bailouts. Cool, I'd still have saved hundreds of billions with my reforms, suck it up.

You're absolutely entitled to believe that a report missing witness statements from thirty individuals including two ex heads of the council is going to be adequate enough to justify the mass rape of 1400 women over a sixteen year period... I think you're a moron for doing so sweetheart. Even in the opening statement of the article you trust so much it states that councilors did not look into the matter thoroughly enough because of fear of reprisal at being called a racist.

I've actually stated this several times, but I'll do it again in capitals just so we're clear:
THE E.U IS PRO-AUSTERITY, EVIDENCE: 2009 POLICY AND GREECE, THE TORIES CUT EVEN DEEPER THEN THE 2009 POLICY. THAT DOESN'T MEAN THE E.U ISN'T PRO AUSTERITY AND YOU WANT TO REMAIN IN IT: LOOK WHAT THEY DID TO GREECE YOU ABSOLUTE CLEFT. LOL.

Corporation tax: the receipts have increased alongside cuts because it's been good for business. You've actually had several major corporations move their headquarters to the UK because of them. You've clearly not looked into it:
https://www.ft.com/content/ca3e5bd2-2a7e-11e7-9ec8-168383da43b7
This is behind a paywall, so I don't know if you subcribe to the FT, here's the actual tax receipts:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/284319/united-kingdom-hmrc-tax-receipts-corporation-tax/

If you can explain why the receipts have increased so much despite the tax rate being cut in half over a ten year period I'm all ears. John Mcdonnell actually seems to think it's because of state investment which runs somewhat against the harsh austerity measures the tories have inflicted.

If you're only willing to listen to keynsian talking points then honestly that say s a lot more about your inability to converse on a topic and look at evidence. The absolute irony of this situation is you actually genuinely appear to be pro austerity from your: balancing the books rhetoric. Dear me, it seems I'm bringing out your inner Tory ;)

Anonymous said...

Man, you really want to ignore this child rape debacle don't you? You've even got interviews with victims who explained the council turned a blind eye alongside the police. Sort of shows you how useless the #metoo movement is. Christ, you're pro austerity and such a horrible person to boot.

Foreign aid doesn't generate good will, I gave you the Ghana example, you've ignored it. You've basically ignored neo-colonialism. Eretria had a civil war, got rid of all their debt to world banks and stopped NGO help, they had a +8% boost in GDP in 2011 alone, they'v ebulit infrastructure, free'd up their economy. Hell their reading and writing for kids has even spiked as has their standard of living. Look it up if you don't believe me.

hate crimes: Treat it just like a normal crime, so if it's violent deal with it. I'm saying the 900 specialists in London currently policing the internet at the behest of mister Khan is a massive waste of time, bodies and money. If an individual incites violence, for instance when Rose McGowan basically told her fans to harass her ex agency receptionist for pointing out that she may have actually been making up her allegations towards Weinstein (she witnessed the night) and the poor women killed herself... Then I'd get the police involved. Otherwise it's a wast eof time and frankly: an impossible task.

As for peanuts: nah, it's save hundreds of billions. I did say I wanted to cancel trident. I love it though. You lump me in as a Ukipper and wash your hands of any of my points because you can't see past your prejudices. which are:

pro neocolonialism, pro austerity, pro state control of you language, body and a massive waste of taxes... You want to dismiss mass child rape as a minor failure of the system despite major evidence that the individuals responsible for it simply aren't going to be prosecuted because they run in line with your political views.

You're a bit of a cunt love.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous:
we should cancel trident saving 120 billion, re-nationalise ATOS, cancel PFI contracts.
Hayley:
I can't talk to you, you're a ukipper and you're not Keynsian enough.

Fuck me love...

Gulliver said...

@Anonymous - 25 April, 2019 21:07 "It's clear that you're just trying to get everyone to look away from the child abuse the labour councilors covered up for nearly two decades, because you're afraid it'll tarnish Labour's reputation"

Hayely has already comprehensively debunked your pretty libellous claims already, suffice to say I find it somewhat ironic that someone who spends quite a disproportionate amount of time on here accusing others of covering up child sex exploitation is also advocating support for UKIP, a party that has recently announced Carl Benjamin (whose views on underage sex are well known - "yeah, I think… it depends on the child really, doesn’t it… it should really be a case by case basis") as an election candidate.

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/revealed-bizarre-views-of-ukips-sinister-rising-stars/23/09/

Hayley said...

ok this is getting unwieldy. Lets start an itemised list


1) Your estimated savings from canceling the bailout were about 33 times higher than reality. The total cost to the tax payer when all is said and done is estimated at 30 billion. You gave a figure of 1000 billion.

This was your grand plan for balancing the budget and it's absolute nonsense.
Your other "savings" have no figures whatsoever to back them up. We spend 14 billion on foreign aid FYI the deficit in 2010 was £103 billion. Cancel all foreign aid and it wouldn't have made a dent.

The only other thing with an easily estamatable cost is Trident at £200 billion. You canceling trident would have wiped out 2 years of deficit sure. Doesn't do much for the budget going forwards though.

2)I'm not "in favour of austerity" as you put it. I'm in favour of balancing the budget and curbing rampant overspending. The budget shortfall could have been countered by tax reforms but the torys chose cuts. The EU did not mandate tory cuts they mandated a deficit reduction. I've demonstrated this quite clearly

3) the greek "bailouts" were loans. Read your own quotes "To obtain loans from the International Monetary Fund (IMF), 14 member States of the eurozone “represented” by the European Commission, and the European Financial Stability Facility (now the European Stability Mechanism),"

The Greek government were legaly obligated to pay these loans back. BTW the UK did not contribute to this other than via it's regular IMF contributions. the EU loans were made by the Eurozone countries

How would you suggest the greeks were to go about paying these loans when you don't belive in tax revenue or budget cuts?

4) no one is arguing that what happened in rotherham (and elsewhere) wasn't horrific, or that the councillors behaved correctly. no one is suggesting that there weren't severe problems with the way the situation was handled or that major mistakes weren't made.

I'm specificlally arguing against your statement that "Labour are pro-institutionalised pedophilia, that is: They are clearly fine with members of the public committing acts of rape on minors for prolonged periods and have knowingly covered this up"

The reports have proven that their was no organised coverup. Yes the allegations were brushed off, down played and denied, yes this lead to some terrible things occuring, but there is no indication that the councillers in question were aware of the scale or the severity of the problem. The report in your video says "cock up not conspiracy"

Steps were taken by the council to combat what was occuring, but the funding wasn't there and the size of the problem was massively underestimated. You're talking like the councillors had full knowledge of the whole sordid affair and chose to do nothing about it. All of the investigations civil and criminal have proven that that's not the case. They did try to put a stop to what was occuring. they were just spectacularly bad at it. As the report from your video says "cock up not conspiracy"

This is all ignoring the fact that you're generalising a party of 500,000 members based on the failings of about 30 or so councillors and a couple of misjudged tweets...

5) Again no idea of the true figures here but if we aim high and say 900 specialists in london at £50,000 per head, its £45 million. even at £100,000 each you're looking at £90 million. You're not really going to wipe out the deficit with that one...

Don't want to get into an argument about how useful this expendature is. I'm pretty sure you;re in favour of people cracking down on Islamic hate speech for example, but either way you brought this up as a way to balance the budget, when it's only a fraction of a fraction of a percent of government spending. So yeah peanuts...

Hayley said...

6) Do you think the increase in corporation tax revenue since 2009 could posibily match the upturn in the UK economy?

look at total tax returns to see a similar increase. also note how corporation tax is less than 10% of the total revenue and a third of what's generated by VAT. Seems fair...

https://www.statista.com/statistics/284298/total-united-kingdom-hmrc-tax-receipts/
https://www.statista.com/statistics/284317/united-kingdom-hmrc-tax-receipts-vat/

7) I belive in government stimulous to the economy. I don't belive in a bottomless money purse. Government deficit can be a usefulltool if used correctly, but running at a constant deficit and relying on gdp growth to pay for it is not a sustainable way to run a country. I take it we agree on this?

8) I'm not lumping you in with anything, you've been shilling for UKIP this entire thread. would be a bit rich for you to turn around now and say you're not a ukipper

9)It's very easy to miscatogorise people's views. For instance I could accuse you of being a politically minded troll who deliberately brings up controversial topics and misrepresents the fact to discredit his percived opponents, and steer the discourse away from meaningful discussion rather than the honest and concerned British citizen you so obviously are.

I look forward to your honest appraisal of my points as we continue to exchange our thoughts in marketplace of ideas ;)

Hayley said...

Anonymous: UKIP! UKIP! UKIP! also you're a pedo and a nazi and a racist and so is everyone in Labour!

Also Anonymous: How dare you call me a ukipper!

Anonymous said...

Well done on your endurance so far, I'm more then happy to go through the itemised list. I've very much like to start with the E.U's austerity measures.

the E.U is pro austerity. Here's an article with multiple examples:

https://www.redpepper.org.uk/the-trouble-with-being-both-anti-austerity-and-pro-eu/

"For example, in April 2011 the Portuguese government requested a bailout package from the European Union in order to pay for debts incurred due to the corruption and incompetency of private banks, both international and domestic. In return for the €78 billion bailout fund, the European Union demanded harsh and widespread austerity measures to bring down Portugal’s budget deficit.
With no other option save bankruptcy, the Portuguese government set about its task. It enacted austerity measures which included a huge public sector wage cut, mass privatisation, and cuts to public services including healthcare, education and social care. In addition, these measures were coupled with major tax rises."

So that's Portugal...

In terms of Greece: They gave them the loan based upon the fact that they would enact the austerity measures in the same way as Portugal. Do you want me to start putting up youtube videos of E.U leaders stating how austerity is a must?

I'm not stating the Tories are not pro austerity, I'm stating: The E.U is massively in favour of austerity, specifically when it comes to enormous bailouts for countries.

Do you now agree that the E.U is pro austerity?

Do you think this is a good thing? do you think this is a good economic method of responding to these countries individual issues?

Do you now understand when I state that belonging to the E.U means you are pro austerity?

Anonymous said...

same question again, more evidence. here is an interview with Yannis Varoufakis:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qydY_1yRtzM

From 01:18 he literally states: The President of the Eurogroup demanded Greece receive the bailout money if they go through with the Austerity measures.

So again, do you understand that the E.U, economically: Is pro-Austerity.

Hayley said...

I really don't know how to make this any clearer

Tory austerity is cuts to benefits, public service redundancies, VAT hikes and underfunding the police and NHS. etc. People obviously dislike this because the poorer members of society faced an unfair burden

When people talk about EU mandated "austerity" its merely a set of targets for deficit reduction. That is all. Individual governments decided how to do this. some raised new taxes others made sweeping cuts to public services. Most did somewhere in between, the tory's chose the latter. Most people are not against the kinds of austerity that curb over spending by spreading the load accross all levels of society including the wealthy and corportations

There are literally 3 options when running a high deficit

1) Raise taxes
2) cut spending
3) keep going further into debt and rely on gdp growth and inflation to magic the debt away

The first two options can be summed up as "austerity" and you've declared them both to be bad. All that leaves is option 3 and the ever expanding magic money purse that is spiraling national debt.

You've got some problems with the EU's deficit redction targets, and there's room for discussion there. Maybe they were too high, or maybe they could have been achieved over a longer timescale. But i don't think you've given any argument to suggest that deficit reduction itself is a bad thing

Perosnally I don't fundamentaly disagree with "austerity" (in the sense of controling the national debt) I just object to the specific way it was handled by the tories. If you were being honest i think that you would agree with me on this. Even if we disagree on what spending policies should have been implemented instead...



Anonymous said...

I have a detailed explanation regarding this, however, just to clarify: you're stating the e.u needed to implement austerity to balance the books?

Anonymous said...

Sigh, nevermind.

if you go all the way back to the 2008 crisis the reason austerity was implemented wasn't to balance the books, it was simply to filter through money to pay for the corporation bailouts enacted by every country and the E.U, specifically the E.C.B. This money was paid for by the taxpayer. Effectively all the countries involved and the E.U did with this bailout was turn private debt (the banks) into public debt. You're probably well aware of this: You and I paid for the bailouts. We paid for them through raised taxes as well as cuts:

If you have a public economy: Schools, welfare, a health service: They are the ones who are going to be hit because of austerity. Your argument appears to be: but we can cut our way to growth if we just do it right. Incorrect.

If you shrink these economies and raise taxes you are not saving money. To save money you need to have one part of your economy actually making it. Lowering taxes does this, there's plenty of evidence for this, the economy of Texas is a fantastic example for instance.

The Tories raised VAT, as did Gordon Brown and they also cut from HMRC making it more difficult to take on tax from corporations. I find it incredibly odd you'd think a regular GDP growth in the UK economy of 0.2-0.5% over the last ten years is a justification for their being enough growth economically for the tens of billions corporation tax has produced.

Austerity does not work because those socialised markets are cut yet remain nationalised. Just look at the state of France right now.

The E.U did not want to shoulder the debt from the banks, it bailed out Greece and Portugal and 95% of that money ended back in the wallets of the lenders: The Banks. The E.U enacted that policy, that interview of the ex greek chancellor is enough evidence. Merely stating the deficit reduction is a good idea by setting an artificial target as is ignoring both what actually happened and the plight of the greeks.

The banks never should have been bailed out, they should have shouldered the debt, our economies would have recovered s austerity wouldn't have been implemented to pay for it, we'd have had a minor recession and come out absolutely fine.

Ironically: you are actually pro-austerity, though I think out of ignorance rather then malice. Honestly that's socialism all over though. Lol.

C'est tout.

Hayley said...


No austerity was instituted to account for the massive drop in GDP after the 2008 crash. the Bailouts were a small percentage of total sovereign debt. look at the charts for gdp and and tax revenue:

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/gdp
https://www.statista.com/statistics/284298/total-united-kingdom-hmrc-tax-receipts/

Deficit as a proportion of GDP went up because GDP went down. you can't continue to grow your deficit when your economy contracts and the recovery is slow. also notice how gdp fell again after the brexit vote...

I'm not a huge fan of the the way the financial industry is run, but the Uk economy is tied heavily to financial services. We can pivot away from that and I think that we should but that's the sort of thing that takes decades. In the meantime if we let the banks fail the whole economy plummets with it. Again, the entire global economy went into recession. The bailouts were not the cause they were an attempt to fix the situation


In regards to corportate tax. lets look at the figures on that link you posted
https://www.statista.com/statistics/284298/total-united-kingdom-hmrc-tax-receipts/


in 2007/2008 the total corperate tax was 49 billion
total tax for that year was 456 billion
so corperate tax made up 10.7%
Vat for that year was 80.6 million or 17% of total revenue

fast forward to 2017/2018

corp tax revenue is 56 billion
total revenue is 594 billion
so coperate tax has dropped to 9.4%
Vat was 125 billion or 21%

See how dispite your claims of corperate tax cuts increasing tax revenue the tax burden has actualy shifted from corperations and towards the consumer? VAT is a regressive tax.


When GDP and tax revenue fell we had to either raise new taxes to pay for public services or cut public services. The only other alternative would be to increase public expenditure in hopes of stimulating growth to offset the deficit but you've already ruled out the keynesian approach which leaves me as confused as ever what your actual economic stance is.

You seem to be against social service cuts but also against taxes and against socialism. Are you a closet libertarian?




Unknown said...

Hands up anyone else who thinks this 'anonymous' person has a screw loose?

Why doesn't he just put together a petition - see if anyone else supports his miserable excuses to blame Labour and the EU for all the countries ills.

Go on tory boy, have a pop - I'm sure you will easily get 6 million signatures. But I for one won't hold me breath whilst you try.

Unknown said...

Where's the evidence of this institutionised cover up?
Or is it the usual kipper bull?
Climate change a hoax as well I suppose.

Unknown said...

Not as cold as the tories though!!

Unknown said...

Aah the daily torygraph. A bastion of truth...

Unknown said...

I'd change your name to Del.
- Del lusional !!!

Unknown said...

Don't forget to mention the lizard people and George Soros...

Anonymous said...

Wow, you appear quiet upset by my disappearance. I must say I find it fantastic that Hayley has started defending austerity in her replies and you haven't picked up on that.

THE E.U IS PRO-AUSTERITY. HERE IS THE EVIDENCE:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qydY_1yRtzM

From 01:18 he LITERALLY states: The President of the Eurogroup demanded Greece receive the bailout money if they go through with the Austerity measures. If you look at the conditions for the bailout the E.U provided, it was on the condition Greece implement austerity, the same with Portugal. Man, I suppose if you just call people delusional you'll never have to look at the stark, obvious evidence that your political view is based on a lie. A lie that can be disproved with a two minute Google search. Corbyn's finest at work here. Fuck me your jokes.

You all want to remain in the E.U, it is pro-austerity. You bunch of plums.

LOL.

I reply to Hayleys pro austerity points in time, bit rushed. As for you insults: Fuck yourselves, in the eye you bunch of imbeciles. Fucking LOL! I can't actually believe you think the E.U is a benevolent institutions that's going to look after you all when they've treated Greece this way. Wankers the lot of you.

Anonymous said...

Article from Red Pepper outlines the E.U's long list of pro-austerity deals. Again, I literally typed into Google: E.U pro austerity.

https://www.redpepper.org.uk/the-trouble-with-being-both-anti-austerity-and-pro-eu/
"For example, in April 2011 the Portuguese government requested a bailout package from the European Union in order to pay for debts incurred due to the corruption and incompetency of private banks, both international and domestic. In return for the €78 billion bailout fund, the European Union demanded harsh and widespread austerity measures to bring down Portugal’s budget deficit. "

oooh, mate. What a to do? But Austerity means selling off bits of the NHS doesn't it? It means more cuts to local services that have seen people starve to death hasn't it?

That's what you want is it? You want to remain part of a wannabe super state, run by corporations that implements austerity at the drop of a hat?

You. Fucking. Tory. Scum.






LOL!!! Sort your life out mate.

Hayley said...

This is your problem you just type whatever you want to find into google and then post the first link that agrees with you without actually understanding what is being said.

Your thought process is "labour voters don't like austerity, therefore I will find examples of the EU supporting Austerity to undermine support of the EU"

The problem is you've done a piss poor job of explaining why deficit reduction is actualy a bad thing. When I challenged you on how you would manage the economy you just found another way to reduce the deficit with a bunch of numbers pulled out of your arse.

You're pointing at me and going "Look she's endorsing austerity!" and wondering why people aren't annoyed with this. It's because anyone who actually cares, has read my posts and can see that I'm not endorsing Tory cuts or regressive taxes which is what people actually have a problem with. I've pointed out time and again buget deficits can also be reduced by tax restructuring. The EU is totaly fine with this. Many countries have already done so. And it would have worked in the UK too

As a socialist I can see that eternal growth is a myth. If we want to maintain things like the NHS, schools, roads, police, pensions and benefits then we have to pay for them. We can't just rely on an ever growing national debt.

I still don't understand what part of this you object to...

Anonymous said...


"I've pointed out time and again budget deficits can also be reduced by tax restructuring. The EU is totaly fine with this. Many countries have already done so. And it would have worked in the UK too"

The please explain why 95% of the bailout money that the E.U provided with the European banks on the guarantee that austerity measures would be introduced, ended up back in the euro banks and Greece's economy and standard of living tanked?



Hayley said...

Umm because the money was owed by the greek government to the banks... When a country pays off it's debt then that money goes to the creditors. the creditors in this case were largely European banks... Is this really that hard to understand?

What would your solution have been to the greek debt crisis? I can see 3 options, tax, cut spending or default on the debt. Options 1 and 2 are "austerity" so you would have gone with option 3?

Anonymous said...

The E.U funneled billions through Greece's economy to bailout banks whom were chronically in debt due to the well known practices that led to the 2008 crash. They demanded austerity measures which further destroyed Greece's economy.

That's what you want to belong to.

The E.U is pro austerity sweetheart and not your imaginary "It's just deficit reduction" kind. Try explaining that's all the E.U wanted to Greece, I'm sure they'll understand such a flashy turn of phrase. Here's the study, it's a great read. Really twists the knife in how hopelessly corporatist and awful the E.U is. I know, I know, you're thinking it too: Thank Fuck trump was elected so TTIP got shelved.
https://press.esmt.org/Greek_bailout

Anonymous said...

"Umm because the money was owed by the greek government to the banks... When a country pays off it's debt then that money goes to the creditors. the creditors in this case were largely European banks... Is this really that hard to understand?"

Why do they have to pay off the banks debt?

Anonymous said...

Just so I've got this straight: The housing market crash comes about because of investment banks buying debt off of regular banks (If I've got this right, but basically the banks were utilising some very dodgy practices) meaning that this debt never really got paid off. This resulted in a massive housing bubble that, when it exploded cost many people their livlihoods, jobs, etc.

The blame rests specifically on the banks for going about these practices and the state for allowing them...

And you think we should bail them out at massive cost to taxpayers, that has cost the global standard of living to fall and has tanked multiple economies including the UK's... Because if the banks went down it would be bad for the economy?

we shouldn't have bailed out the banks full stop. This I Believe is the third time I've stated this.

Austerity in Greece clearly didn't work. The e.U is responsible for that. They're also responsible for letting a country like Greece into the E.U when it's got such ungodly corruption and again: You want to belong to this?

Ok then...

Hayley said...

Oh my god are you really this confused? you've got it all backwards!

It wasn't the bank's debt. The banks weren't the debtors they were the creditors it was greek soverign debt to the banks.

The greek government was borrowing money from european banks to fund it's over inflated budget. The EU bailed out the greek government because they couldn't afford to pay back the money they had borrowed from international banks

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_government-debt_crisis

Honestly i'm not sure it's worth continuing this discussion. You've proven time and time again that you don't read your own sources and have no real idea what you're talking about...

Anonymous said...

I was talking specifically about the 2008 bailouts.

Honestly, do you think the E.Us response to Greece helped?

Hayley said...

No you werent you were talking about greece

"The E.U funneled billions through Greece's economy to bailout banks whom were chronically in debt due to the well known practices that led to the 2008 crash. They demanded austerity measures which further destroyed Greece's economy."

""Umm because the money was owed by the greek government to the banks..."

Why do they have to pay off the banks debt?"

You've shown you have no idea about the 2008 crash, the situation in greece, How the Eu's definition of "Austerity" differs when compared to the tory implementation or why deficit reduction is not actually a bad thing when handled correctly.

Simply put I'm done talking to you. Wasted enough time on your idiocy already. I expect you'll count this as a victory. Spouting incoherant nonsense until the other side gets bored would seem to be your go-to debating tactic...

Anonymous said...

So you've no example of austerity being implemented correctly... Figures.

It was a victory the minute you started defending austerity. C'est tout.

Anonymous said...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQuHSQXxsjM

Gonna leave this here. Love Mark Blyth.

Anonymous said...

It is Absolutely disgusting how we have such an aberrant Government in place...we need to stop this systematic abuse to the sick and disabled.

Anonymous said...

Since this Government have been in power the national debt is now in Trillions of debt by this corrupt and incompetent government...

Anonymous said...

Hayley won. You lost mate, get over it.

Or do you think we should have a second vote on it?

Anonymous said...

Bit desperate mate.

Anonymous said...

E.u representatives stating in a press conference Greece must implement austerity the same austerity measures they've been utilising since 2010...

Lol.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cKRwPkX6MIg

Anonymous said...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jUqv5X6GqvY

3.20 the reporter specifically states the austerity measure Greece had enforced before was a condition of the bailouts...

This is too easy.

Anonymous said...

They just lost 1000 councillors in the by elections so you might have a chance with Labour... oh wait... they lost 100 seats...

Anonymous said...

I would ask Labour but the leader is busy in talks helping the tories end freedom of movement of the English people.

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