The Green Party's only MP Caroline Lucas has completely and utterly lost the plot over Brexit.
For years she was one of my absolute favourite politicians. She led the Greens when they were the only UK-wide party opposing ruinous austerity fanaticism (Labour pushed pathetic austerity-lite rubbish until this pathetic non-opposition cost them the 2015 general election and triggered the Corbyn fightback against the "centrist" policy of imitating Tory austerity fanaticism, rather than opposing it). Lucas has also consistently been on the right side of important parliamentary votes (alongside Jeremy Corbyn, Diane Abbott, John McDonnell, and Dennis Skinner she was the only other MP with sufficient principles to vote against Theresa May's racist hostile environment, David Cameron's disastrous war-mongering in Libya, and Theresa May's enhanced state snooping powers, and George Osborne's welfare vandalism bill).
Over the last few months it's been bad enough watching the Greens voluntarily turning themselves into recruitment agents for the austerity enabling, privatisation scamming, welfare vandalising, workers' rights attacking, fracking tax cutting, disability persecuting, student impoverishing, electoral reform abandoning Lib-Dem warmongers, but Lucas' "fantasy cabinet" of herself and ten all-white, all-female MPs is an extraordinary blowout.
Here are details on the ten other women Lucas wants to orchestrate a "foil Brexit at any cost" coup with:
Anna Soubry: Ex-Tory Soubry talks a good game pretending to oppose Brexit, but when it came to the crunch she actually voted in favour of Theresa May's hard Brexit shambles of a Withdrawal Agreement! Soubry has also made it absolutely clear that she'd prefer a ruinous Tory-administered Brexit than stopping Brexit under a Corbyn-led Labour government. She also referred to the ruinous living standards destroying policies of the austerity coalition that laid the groundwork for Brexit as "marvellous".
Heidi Allen: Another ex-Tory. As a Tory she once cried in parliament about the devastating impact of Tory welfare vandalism to gather "compassionate Conservative" headlines, before wilfully marching through the lobby to vote in favour of even more of the welfare vandalism and devastating cuts she was crying over. She's also responsible for the stupidest and most dangerous Remainer idea yet, which is to just let No Deal go ahead, then try to magically undo it using retroactive legislation!
Jo Swinson: She isn't a Tory, but she might as well be, having been more loyal to the Tory whip during the ruinous austerity coalition than numerous Tory MPs (including recent Tory leadership candidate Jeremy Hunt!). Whatever horrible abuse and economically illiterate nonsense the Tories were pushing, Swinson wilfully voted it all through, refusing to protest by resigning as Employment Minister, even when they launched their vile and unlawful policy of protecting bad bosses by pricing low-income workers out of the justice system with £1,200 upfront Tribunal Fees. She's also bankrolled by the owner of a fracking operation and voted in favour of Cameron and Osborne's massive tax cut for onshore fracking (which makes her a very odd bedfellow for a Green MP).
Justine Greening: If you're going to stuff your "fantasy cabinet" full of ex-Tory austerity enforcers and Lib-Dem austerity enablers, you might as well include a sitting Tory MP just to hammer home the point that opposing the austerity fanaticism that caused Brexit in the first place will be an absolute non-priority. Aside from being a horrifying austerity-enforcer, Greening was also personally in charge of the mass privatisation of state schools in England. The vast majority of Brits believe that schools should be run as not-for-profit public services, but somehow Lucas wants to include a hard-right school-privatising extremist in her "fantasy cabinet".
Nicola Sturgeon: Sturgeon does occasionally let herself down with cheap partisan political point scoring (which is regrettable, but understandable given the tides of absolute filth that are spewed in her direction), but in general she's a really strong and popular leader. The main problem with the inclusion of SNP figures like Sturgeon and Kirsty Blackman is that Swinson and the Lib-Dems have outright refused to work with the SNP to stop Brexit because they actually see preventing another Scottish independence referendum as a much higher priority than stopping Brexit.
Liz Saville Roberts: Including Plaid Cymru's only female MP is an obvious choice if you're doing a stupid identity politics driven all-female "fantasy cabinet". She has been a hard-working MP since arriving in parliament in 2015, and she's on the decent side of parliamentary divisions the majority of the time. It's hard to see how an alliance between a Welsh independence MP and the ultra-unionist Lib-Dems could ever really hold up for very long though.
Sylvia Hermon: Again, there's nothing particularly wrong with the former UUP, now independent Northern Irish MP Sylvia Hermon. It's just an odd selection to pick a solitary independent MP from Northern Ireland, unless the reason is the tokenism of picking the only Brexit-sceptic MP in Northern Ireland (the DUP are hard Brexit militants and Sinn Féin refuse their Westminster seats on principle).
Emily Thornberry: Reaching out to a serving Labour Party cabinet minister to engage in a plot to sideline Labour from the anti-No Deal fightback is a bold move, but Thornberry is surely far too sensible a political operator to ditch her career by joining this ludicrous identity politics publicity stunt.
Yvette Cooper: Cooper is one of the oddest picks of all. Yes she's involved herself in opposing Brexit, but she's stopped short of calling for another referendum (unlike Labour front bench MPs like Diane Abbott, who has repeatedly made the case for a final say referendum on Brexit).
- The inclusion of a load of pro-austerity, pro-privatisation, pro-fracking, Heathrow expansion-supporting, solar subsidy slashing MPs in Lucas' "fantasy cabinet" just goes to show how wildly she's lost her way. She won so much admiration for her principled stances on austerity, welfare, privatisation, and the environment, and now she's bulldozing the lot into a fire pit in order to cavort with hard-right austerity enablers and fracking advocates!
- The idea of gender exclusion is absolutely terrible too. Anyone who is genuinely opposed to Brexit must understand that a ludicrous identity politics dick-counting exercise is a pointless distraction. Anyone who thinks an unprincipled loudmouth like Anna Soubry is more of an asset to the Brexit fightback than Dominic Grieve or Keir Starmer, simply because she's female, is absolutely out of their god-damned tree.
- An all-white cabinet which includes several Brexit enablers, whilst excluding significantly more anti-Brexit BAME women like Diane Abbott, Dawn Butler, Marsha de Cordova, and Rupa Huq is extraordinary. And their exclusion makes no sense either. Lucas reached out to Thornberry who is in Corbyn's shadow cabinet, so she could have reached out to Abbott and Butler too, and she reached out to Cooper who is a Labour back bencher, meaning there must be some other reason she decided not to involve BAME Labour backbenchers like Huq and de Cordova.
- One of the most worrying things is that nobody in the Green Party seems able or willing to take her to one side and ask her to stop this increasingly erratic and damaging behaviour. There's absolutely no way that this all-female all-white "fantasy cabinet" idea including a load of austerity-enablers, privatisation fanatics, and environmental vandals was approved at Green Party conference, so she's not only making a fool of herself, she's also making a mockery of the Green Party's claim to be the most democratic and accountable party in UK politics.
- The whole thing seems to be a desperate last-ditch effort to exclude Corbyn and the Labour-left from the process, even though it's absolutely obvious that the support of the Labour-left would be absolutely vital if Lucas ever gets the "another roll of the dice" referendum she's expended so much energy on demanding (whilst ignoring the role austerity fanaticism played in causing Brexit in the first place).
- And last but not least the whole idea of a "foil Brexit at any cost" cross-bench coup is absolutely terrible anyway. If you wanted to think of the ideal way of empowering Boris Johnson to seize the moral high ground and romp to a general election victory, an unelected Westminster establishment clique overturning Brexit without even a General Election or Referendum result to give them a mandate would be pretty much exactly what the Brextremists would be wishing for!
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59 comments:
Sadly, this seems to be another example of the fuzziness of green ideology that may result in such derogatory (though not entirely unmerited) designations as “neoliberals on bikes”, an epithet used for the right wing “Realos” of the German Greens.
In that sense, this particular version of “greenness” reminds me of the LibDems and other social liberal parties that seem to have an unerring tendency to prioritise tax cuts and similar policies from the right side of their ideology, rather than the social equality left side of it whenever push comes to shove. Basically, cut taxes and social services and then put a bandaid on the situation with some kind of fund/grant/stipend/charitable enterprise that alleviates some of the consequences for a select group of “deserving poor”.
Actually AAV you need to ask yourself why, when you used to be a Caroline Lucas fan, do you now feel it necessary to pour your venomous bile all over her?
I don't think it is CL that has changed, it is you.
The militant left have become as intolerant and as obnoxious have the extreme right, but they don't see this because they have become so entrenched in their tribal echo-chambers that they are incapable of seeking compromise or listening to any other point of view.
We have got into this mess due to the polarisation of politics and political discourse and it is sad that any attempts by otherwise respected figures to find an acceptable solution are dismissed out of hand because they do not fulfil the complete wished of the polar extremes.
Perhaps you need a break for some self reflection.
AAV, give Lucas a break. We desperately need a government of national unity RIGHT NOW.
Not sure who Anon is "Actually AAV......" But they have written my post for me.
Tribal echo chambers - exactly
Yep. Seems that the only consistent party is the Tories. Better vote for them, then.
". hard Brexit shambles of a Withdrawal Agreement", so you either or both not read the WA Agreement or failed to understand it then
"Actually AAV you need to ask yourself why, when you used to be a Caroline Lucas fan, do you now feel it necessary to pour your venomous bile all over her?"
Did you not read the article? AAV is angry that CL wants to form an all white, all female* cabinet of right-wing psychopaths to stop a **no-deal Brexit. These right-wing psychopaths caused the British electorate to vote for Brexit in the first place, by putting the burden of the bank bail-outs on the British people, therefore enabling UKIP (and some Tories) to blame all our problems on membership of the EU.
*I thought feminism was about achieving equality with men, not female supremacy.
**Which will never happen, regardless.
"The militant left have become as intolerant and as obnoxious have the extreme right" Spot on, your flawless centrist logic has convinced me that diametrically opposed sides are actually the same, just as Antifa(ANTI FASCISTS) are as bad as the fascists if not worse. "Some Very Fine People on Both Sides" right Mr Trump...I mean Anon?
"AAV, give Lucas a break. We desperately need a government of national unity RIGHT NOW." Yeah we have that, a government and a few other parties united against the left and Corbyn.
“We have got into this mess due to the polarisation of politics and political discourse and it is sad that any attempts by otherwise respected figures to find an acceptable solution are dismissed out of hand because they do not fulfil the complete wished of the polar extremes.“
Wtf? While it’s unclear exactly what “this mess” is, if the poster meant Brexit, that’s absurd. Brexit came about due to internal Tory party politics and it was hardly polarisation that caused the outcome of the actual referendum. The farcical postscript in the guise of May’s decision to go it alone without involving any other political parties but the Tories (and arguably not even much of her own party), until she lost her majority and had to include the DUP is hardly an example of “left extremists” dismissing a reasonable solution either.
This whole post contains all of the silly centrism, or rather centrist fallacy, that assumes that the correct answer must always lie somewhere in between two positions and that both sides are equally extreme. The bankruptcy of this fallacious logic can be seen by actually observing the political developments in the UK and US over the last generation.
Starting with the Clinton/Blair era New Democrats/New Labour clearly moved to the right, adopting central tenets of GOP/Tory economic philosophy, most notably supply side economics, deficit hawkery and market fetishism (that markets are a panacea and that creating “artificial markets” within the public sector will magically fix everything). At the same time the GOP/Tories moved ever further to the right.
Now, that it has become possible to voice the kind of leftist policies that was pretty standard fare pre-Clinton/-Blair (and are still pretty uncontroversial in several other countries), suddenly Democratic progressives or Corbyn style Labourites are decried as being extremists who share equal guilt with the ever rightward moving GOP/Tories for “radicalisation” of politics.
If you’re a social liberal centrist, fine, argue that position on its own merits. But if you insist on applying this centrist fallacy, you are basically bound to accept ever more right wing policies in the US and the UK, given that neither the GOP nor the Tories seem to have reached the end of their migration to the right of the political spectrum yet.
The problem with centrist triangulation based on the assumption that both sides are equally right/wrong is that it is easily exploitable by such tactics as those employed by the GOP who really don’t give a toss about whether they break the political system, because A) They consider it inferior to the market anyway and B) Their key constituency (corporations) don’t really need much of the services provided by the government (hence the GOP willingness to shut down the US federal government to get their way).
The other problem with this kind of centrist fallacy is that when you have one side of a two-party system (and for the purpose of cabinets, the UK is practically that) moving to an ever more extreme position (and contrary to the picture painted in the post, this has been the prerogative of the GOP/Tories for decades), you end up simply trailing the right migration by a certain margin. This effectually means letting the GOP/Tories define the debate by the default assumption that their ever more extreme free market fundamentalism is just one, equally moderate and reasonable position and that the mainly rather modest leftist suggestions by progressive Democrats or Corbyn style Labourites are just as extreme as the privatisation and austerity fixated GOP/Tories.
The only thing such centrism illustrates is how far to the right the Overton window has moved during the Clinton/Blair era in the US and UK. That was the real triumph of Reagan and Thatcher: They managed to redefine their radical political agenda as the “new normal”, centre-right position, confirmed by the subsequent move to the right of the New Democrats/New Labour (to a position approximating or even slightly to the right of Eisenhower Republicanism/One Nation Toryism).
Now that there is beginning to be serious pushback in both the UK and US against this general shift of the political spectrum to the right, what used to be rather standard progressive/leftist fare is presented as raving socialism as if progressive Democrats/Corbyn style Labourites we’re suggesting seizing the means of production and enforcing five-year plans.
The E.U encouraged the bailouts, had their own bailouts utilising European taxpayers money and continue to bail out banks and corporations. The only difference is by leaving the E.U it means that the E.U can no longer use U.K tax mo ey for bailouts.
The E.U is also pro austerity I.e. Greece and Portugal.
AAV Wants to remain despite them being the anathema if what he wants for the U.K.
Heres antifa in Portland stopping traffic based upon skin colour: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MJLylzPRvyw
Heres antifa attacking a journalist without provocation repeatedly (hes gay and Asian, they call him a white supremacist). This is also in Portland:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8WzMZxT-41k
Lol, they are. Mcdonnell is a confessed Marxist and they want to renationalise energy despite industry despite the proposed 250 billion being impossible to pay back.
Note the word ”renationalise”; public ownership of and direct control with power production used to be fairly uncontroversial before the “markets will make everything better” approach took over.
Not to mention that power production and distribution, being pretty much a natural monopoly and a vital one at that, has not been equally privatised in all countries. Thus all the big players are obviously what used to be called “national champions”, so the difference renationalisation would make is probably limited (who have really experienced the promised lower costs of power following privatisation in the first place?).
As for the costs being “impossible to pay back” that’s arguable, given the running losses that are incurred in terms of profits being siphoned off by private operators. Oh, and since the UK issues its own currency, it can literally print the money to purchase the energy sector, if that’s what it wished.
Ok, you've ignored that Mcdonnell is a proclaimed Marxist (circa 2011). But let's look at the energy market:
It is not free market, utis subsidised neaningthe big six have a monopoly. It kills market competition.
It is impossible to pay back. The big six each draw in revenue around the hundreds of millions, not taking into consideration their current subsidy.
If you want to print off money via quantitative easing you're ignoring that you're buying bonds with this... if you default on these you'll have to outright buy these off which means printing off more money, but we'll pretend that artificially lowering the costs of energy prices, not to mention stating how much you're going yo spend prior to a deal (I mean if its clearly an election policy and they want to stick to it, what's stopping EDF Asking for more cash?) Isnt going to result in any further spending...
Man, you're outright ignoring inflation from all that q.e, assuming energy is a "natural monopoly", not to mention Unions having control over the individual markets (you think France is ever going to move away from 70% nuclear energy markets? The unions merely have a strike seeing as the workers who work in those stations keep them in their job). Man, you've completely glossed over the coal strikes pre Thatcher era and the blackouts, not to mention the conditions a nationalised industry left the miners in (if you squash market innovation you hamper technology being produced. Welsh miners were still using pick axes into the seventies!)
Honestly, its incompetent and foolish. To have cheaper energy: you drop the subsidy. That's all you need to do. Itll break up the corporations, itll produce market efficiency. Hell we might finally start taking over Chinas lead on renewables (thryre leading the way, they git there by: free market enterprise)
I'm expecting the usual anti Thatcher, hardright rant in response, but maybe you'll surprise me. For for it.
"Heres antifa attacking a journalist without provocation repeatedly (hes gay and Asian, they call him a white supremacist)." Yeah clearly no provocation from someone who is openly known to be an activist of the far-right, promoting ideas such as overt racism and anti-feminism just like Tommy Robinson or Carl Benjamin. You can be gay and Asian and also be a white supremacist, just as you can be a working class voter voting Conservative. Your points have only indicated that you support the far-right so what exactly are you doing in this comment section?
There's so much wrong with your comment I don't even know where to begin.
"Ok, you've ignored that Mcdonnell is a proclaimed Marxist" Ah I forgot that being a Marxist immediately invalidates someones opinion. We should definitely not be open to new ideas or anything as it is not like the planet is going to be uninhabitable in half a century if capitalism is continued as it is or anything. Yeah sure, we should keep pushing austerity too kill another 100.000 people it's not like human life has any value especially over money or anything. Definitely more of the same politics and economics are needed when humans are causing the sixth mass extinction in the entire history of the planet.
Neoliberalism should be abandoned because it is clearly an economically illiterate idea that has stunted growth and created less stable economies even admitted by the IMF.
https://fortune.com/2016/06/03/imf-neoliberalism-failing/
Do you genuinely think that if we had a few Marxists in government that the UK would suddenly transition into Marx's vision of Communism because that is nonsense. All Keynesian economic thought now gets called radical Communism when it was just the norm before Thatcher but you've made it clear that you cannot comprehend that. I guess that's just the classic conservative attitude of erasing history like when Jeremy Hunt claimed it was the Tories who set up the NHS. Also the suggestion that China has a free market is categorically false "Hell we might finally start taking over Chinas lead on renewables (thryre leading the way, they git there by: free market enterprise)" There's so much else wrong with your comment but I'm sure someone else will explain it to you and you will once again fail to understand.
This whole "all-female national unity (except socialists) cabinet" thing is clearly bonkers. It's desperation isn't it? It's very clear by now that the only path to averting Brexit is to elect a Labour government. It's very clear - they have stated it repeatedly and consistently, for all everyone seems to find it ambiguous - that this will be followed by a referendum. It looks like these people care more about stopping socialism than about stopping Brexit. Disappointing that Lucas has chosen to jump on that bandwagon rather than sticking to the principles she's claimed to hold throughout her career - guess this shows us how far we can believe in the Greens.
The fact that in her desperation to avoid including Diane Abbott she took her eye off the ball and scuppered herself right out of the box with the all-white thing is telling. Still if you will fuck about with Identity Politics you get what you deserve. Always remember that, like Political Correctness, Identity Politics is a caricature created by the right to undermine things the left genuinely wants to achieve.
And as for "Mcdonnell is a proclaimed Marxist", Anonymous; you seem to think that that's your magical win-all-arguments trump card. It's like one of those toys where you pull a string and it says the same thing over and over again. I see it as a statement of the obvious. Of course he bloody is. And? It's like when David Cameron stood up in parliament, pointed at Ed Miliband and said "you are a socialist!" Ed floundered. What he should have said is, "Yes Dave, this is the House of Commons, you are the leader of the Conservatives, and I am the leader of the Labour Party. What part of this situation haven't you grasped until now?"
Oh unless you're trying to suggest that democratic socialism and totalitarian communism are the same thing. In which case I assume you won't complain if I conflate anything to the right of centre with full-blown Nazism? Grow up mate. There is left, and there is right, and they are both spectrums with a wide range of positions on them.
"It is impossible to pay back. The big six each draw in revenue around the hundreds of millions, not taking into consideration their current subsidy."
This doesn't make much sense. You've basically contradicted yourself. Yes, the big six draw in revenue. If it was privatised all that revenue would go straight to the state without being filtered through their shareholders first. And as you say they are currently subsidised. That's money we would not be spending. And ultimately, as the government, the government would be able to say, "We're the government, and we're gonna pay (x). That's what you're getting. Hav eyou heard about compulsory purchase? Don't like it? Tough shit, elect the Conservatives."
Bobbins I agree with what you have said and I know I'm being "that guy" but there is a difference between Social Democrats and Democratic Socialists, the latter being more left wing and what some of the progressive Democrats, the Labour left and myself identify as. Also can we not use the term "Communism" when we describe the Soviet Union,as communism is the abolition of the state, social classes and money, all of which existed in the USSR, which was indeed a totalitarian state.
Yeah... you chose to ignore the other video of antifa directing traffic according to race and you've got no evidence hes a white supremacist.
You're full of shit. You're a racist if you're defending that behaviour. Fuck yourself bitch.
Nope, I said they're leading on renewables due to free market economics, not that China has a free market.
He believes in an authoritarian dogma which explicitly states it wants a one party state managing every aspect of our lives through economic centralisation. He'll be in charge of the economy if Labour win a G.E.
I agree, neo liberalism is on it's way out: it's why ive suggested dropping energy subsidy and adopting a free market approach as: itll be cheaper and greener. I even provided an example which you chose not to look into. You've also chosen to ignore the massive issue of inflation if you create 250 billion, or the unions (provided a example of that as well...), or the example of other nationalised energy markets... you just went on a rant about neo liberalism.
You've fallen short.
Cest tout.
Uh huh. The shareholders money comes under the revenue the bif six generate.2017 saw EDF produce 330 million in revenue in the UK (just look up the figures). Take away the subsidy and Barely scraping 1 billion from all of them. labour also want to lower energy costs... that's less revenue. Its basic math.
This just goes to show how Brexit has made everyone go crackers. If Caroline Lucas had suggested this dream cabinet just 5 years ago, she would have been expelled from the Green Party.
The only member state that voted to leave the European Union is also the only member state that can't do it (because of the Good Friday Agreement). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GVJpOmaDyU
In response to the discussion on socialism/marxism - this pamphlet can describe real socialism a lot better than I can:
https://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/pamphlet/from-capitalism-to-socialism-how-we-live-and-how-we-could-live/
So it Russia specifically followed the tennants of Das Capital and the manifesto. They abolished all property rights and centralised the entire economy. Just look at the economic reports from Russian economists.
It doesnt and it wont, again: both Ireland and The U.K can agree to a sodt border. The E.U cant enforce a hard one, it doesnt have an army. Yet.
The only way of having a soft border between RoI and NI after Brexit is to put the border in the Irish sea and leave NI in the single market and you can't do that because of the DUP propping up the Tories. Ireland cannot and will not open it's border with a non EU state so here's the choice for britain - stay in the EU or give Ireland back to the Irish.
The default position is a hard Brexit in October meaning it will be down to the U.K and Ireland to decide on a border. Johnson has already stated hes ok with a soft one meaning you think the Irish political establishment will push for a hard border on themselves...? That sounds like political suicide and will be. No. Soft border I'm afraid.
It's impossible though, either both sides are in the single market or you get a hard border. It's not up to Johnson or Varadkar it's just a fact. It's an impossible to solve situation that scuppers the whole deal because you either leave a hole in the single market for goods to escape/enter through or you break the good Friday agreement. Which international treaty would you prefer to imagine away with your wishful thinking?
The E.U's. A soft border doesnt break the good Friday agreement and: AGAIN: the e.u cant enforce a hard border. It's their loss.
Heres what I'll do, we'll make bet. Neither of us is backing down and when we leave in October either one of us can come back to this conversation and gloat.
Utter rubbish, gloat away wrong boy because you are wrong, again. I'm sick of pigeon chess now so have fun thinking you won something here.
You're over reacting with a double negative. I'll get back to you in October ;)
There's a better chance of the next pope being a woman than of the UK leaving the EU in October.
I don't see a double negative there.
Man, that's actually a higher likelihood then the whole world adopting what you think is socialism isnt it?
Like look at America... they hate it.
There's a better chance of the workers of the world uniting to bring socialism than of the Catholic Church abandoning sexism.
Exactly :)
A 'Government of National Unity' has been the wet dream of 'journalists' since one of them first mentioned it (in this regard anyway) a few months ago. Then they all latched onto it as though it might happen - it won't.
Lucas has simply thrown this out there, in the knowledge it WON'T happen, to boost her profile. Better still (from her point of view) that is was to be an all female affair and raises many genuine points about why women are absent, for the most part, from politics. She picked her list thoughtfully including all parties and parts of the UK but forgetting that every single one of them was white - this was jumped on in seconds and click-bait headlines were saying she was actually CALLING for a government of whites-only.
We should worry less about what she's advocating - it won't happen. Even the backing being requested, quite reasonably, from Corbyn won't happen either. Any group of politicians are essentially like a bag of cats. If they can't get power they won't vote for it - end of. I mean SOME will but not enough to make it happen and such is the way of things in parliament. They're too busy fighting each other to cooperate and get what they all, allegedly, want.
But for a tiny number of MPs in parliament ie the LibDems we could have the cooperation that would lead to Corbyn being, albeit temporarily, in charge. The SNP (far larger party than the LibDems anyway) have ALWAYS been willing to help Labour keep the Tories out. But for the Scottish section of the Labour Party this could well have happened in the past. But such is Scottish Labour's hatred of SNP they would rather let the Tories in than even TALK to the SNP. Too many Blairites in the party are ignoring Leonard's plea to keep schtum and are shooting their mouths off about McDonell's statement (in regard to an independence referendum) last week.
Politics needs to realign. The left wing Tories and Right Wing Labour need to join the LibDems (just as in the 80s) then the Labour Party could return to founding principles (such as autonomy for Scotland) and regain it's lost vote in it's heartlands (such as Scotland where it is now a third and sometimes FOURTH placed party. Corbyn is popular there, sadly the party aren't behind him and because of this they may well have finished the party's monopoly over the vote there...
By designating my character as wrong then stating I was wrong hes implying that I'm wrong at being wrong. So therefore I'm right. Also I said to agree to disagree and wait until October to gloat and told me to gloat... he basically got emotional over a frankly passe conclusion to our tame interaction.
Does it not worry you that you're advocating for a wholly centralised economy? I understand you think that there wont technically be an economy once the workers of the world have taken back the means of production, what I mean is: you're advocating for all resources to be manually created/managed and shared out by individuals (again, I understand that they'll be democratically elected every year). But literally anytime any country has tried this it's been so inefficient its stopped any technological innovation and caused starvation?
Do you understand that not only did the Soviet union have gulags from Lenins era, but that each city had a set of economists who pre planned distribution of resources and that they themselves wrote about how frustrating it was to watch warehouses full of food and clothing go to waste because they simply couldnt allocate it correctly? None of the resources you've provided explain how you've solved this?
For instance clothing: you need to ship and distribute materials by the hundreds of tons overseas, then the equipment sew it... or will you have it sewn in one country then ship it over seas? How will you judge how much to send overseas? How will you judge how much material to send to factories in the first place? Who will sew it? How will you train people to sew it? What happens if not enough people are I interested in sewing it (I mean they dont need to work as sewing is not especially rewarding, neither is operating enormous machinery to mass produce it... you'll also need engineers to fix the machines).
Basically what I'm getting at is; how do you know your ideology isnt wishful thinking that has glossed over this myriad of details that every current market has to deal with through the current paradigm of supply and demand?
No, I called you "wrong boy" then stated that you were wrong. It's a reiteration not a double negative but thanks for continuing to prove your ignorance!
Also congratulations on being able to judge my mental state so accurately.
PS, you're still wrong.
Women arent absent from politics, there are more women in politics then ever before as well as specific cross party policy tanks designed to create policy specifically for women.
Nah, I'm standing by my double negative description. To be fair either one stands but as you're being so adversarial and insulting I'll stick with it. I just think you're over reacting despite me quite reasonably pointing out the soft border option (you've still not explained how the e.u would enforce a hard border) and also, AGAIN: We'll happily see in October.
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(4) cure for any kind of sickness, disease and infection .
Email: powerfulspellcasters1@gmail.com
His WhatsApp number: +2349031852746
Amazing! Can you please ask for his help solving the Irish border problem that is so vexing for our poor pet anonymous?
@Unknown (15:08).
ROFL
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Hi, I just want to share my experience with everyone. i got my blank atm card 5 days ago and i already made a total withdrawal of $15000. all thanks to MR GEORGE.its is programmed for only money withdraws without being noticed and can also be used for free online purchases of any kind, it just took only 5 days to be delivered to me with a maximum daily withdraw amount of $3000. The card is encrypted with a microchip that enables you withdraw without any traces,You dont have to worry about how stressful it is to get loans anymore or about credit scores.If you want to contact them, Here is the email address georgewilder402@gmail.com
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Porn Sex and Anal Sex Collection(the absence of commas makes the first two words over explanatory)don't think so!
URGENT AND POWERFUL SPELL CASTER AND LOTTERY WINNING SPELL DR GBOJIE WHATSAPP HIM ON +234906641018
What a miracle to have my ex back and i need to share this great testimony... I just want to say thanks Dr gbojie for taking time to help me cast the spell that {now my husband},who suddenly lost interest in me after six month of engagement,but today we are married and we are more happier than never before, I am really short of words and joyful, and i don't know how much to my appreciation to you doctor gbojie you are a God sent to restore broken relationship.he deeply enjoy helping people achieve their desires, find true love,getting their ex lovers back,stop abusive relationships,find success,attract happiness,find soul mates and more,contact him today. and let him show you the wonders and amazement of his Love Spell System. He deliver results at his best in real spell casting,email him for help on gbojiespiritualtemple@gmail.com or gbojiespiritualtemple@yahoo.com you can also call him on +2349066410185 website : http://gbojiespiritualtemple.website2.me/
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Hello everyone, am very happy to share this little awesome testimony about Dr olu a great herbal doctor who help me enlarge my penis size.3.2 cm to 8.3 cm longer with his herbal cream mixture, my girlfriend is now so amazed with the autonomous size of my penis , if you you are also in need of help on how to enlarge your penis to become bigger and stronger I adverse you to contact Dr on his email (drolusolutionhome@gmail.com) ) you or contact on whatsapp number +2348140654426 because he is one of the best herbal doctor that i can only show you up to, if your penis is 4.2 cm and want to get it reach 9.2 cm within three weeks i Dr olu is also specialized on obey m breast and boobs enlargement i advise you to contact him for help
I am very happy today with my family. My name is Sally Gabrielle living in USA, My husband left me for a good 3 years now, and i love him so much, i have been looking for a way to get him back since then. i have tried many options but he did not come back, until i met a friend that darted me to Dr.Ojogun a spell caster, who helped me to bring back my husband after 2 weeks. Me and my husband are living happily together today, That man is great, you can contact him via email ojogun.48hoursspelltemple@gmail.com … Now i will advice any serious persons that found themselves in this kind of problem to contact him now a fast solution without steress.. He always hello, now i call him my father. contact him now he is always online email (ojogun.48hoursspelltemple@gmail.com ) or contact him on his whatsapp mobile line +2348154637647
I am very happy today with my family. My name is Sally Gabrielle living in USA, My husband left me for a good 3 years now, and i love him so much, i have been looking for a way to get him back since then. i have tried many options but he did not come back, until i met a friend that darted me to Dr.Ojogun a spell caster, who helped me to bring back my husband after 2 weeks. Me and my husband are living happily together today, That man is great, you can contact him via email ojogun.48hoursspelltemple@gmail.com … Now i will advice any serious persons that found themselves in this kind of problem to contact him now a fast solution without steress.. He always hello, now i call him my father. contact him now he is always online email (ojogun.48hoursspelltemple@gmail.com ) or contact him on his whatsapp mobile line +2348154637647
Herbal medicine is best and fast in recovery from any illness, disease or growth.
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HERPES TYPE 1 / HERPES TYPE 2
HEPATITIS A,B,C
CANCER,(COPD)
HIV-AIDS
DIABETES
PENIS ENLARGEMENT
Just write to me below
Contact Me on my Email handle : priestazibasolutioncenter@gmail.com .and also on whatsapp: +2348100368288
Herbal medicine is best and fast in recovery from any illness, disease or growth.
My name is Priest/ Dr Aziba a Herbal Doctor I am here to help you get cured out of any disease or virus you might be having, no matter how long you have been suffering from that diseases there’s a cure. Herbal medicine is 100% guarantee for any kind of disease e:g
HERPES TYPE 1 / HERPES TYPE 2
HEPATITIS A,B,C
CANCER,(COPD)
HIV-AIDS
DIABETES
PENIS ENLARGEMENT
Just write to me below
Contact Me on my Email handle : priestazibasolutioncenter@gmail.com .and also on whatsapp: +2348100368288
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